Episode 47
👩🏻🏫 Looking for a change? Mel Pye shares recruitment advice.
#47 - Mel Pye works in the field of recruitment in independent schools. She was recommended to me as a guest by Kirsty Hassan so it was great to connect with her. If you're looking to change your job, maybe to work in a different school, take a listen to this episode.
Mel Pye online:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/melaniepye/
melanie.pye@schoolsleadership.com
www.schoolsleadership.com
Contact me:
Transcript
So in this episode today, we're talking to Melanie Pye.
:She's the Associate Director of Schools Leadership.
:They're a management recruitment group.
:Let's jump into it right now.
:Welcome back to I'd Rather Be at the Beach by Simon Jones, who runs the Bonjour Agency.
:If you work in an independent school, then this is the podcast for you, where we don't talk about work, but we do talk to people in the independent school sector.
:It's fun, it's fascinating, it's fabulous.
:So let's jump into it.
:Mel, thank you for joining us on I'd Rather Be at the Beach.
:It's 7.30 in the morning, so well done for being up and about and getting here on time for this.
:How are you today?
:I'm very well, thank you.
:I'm an early morning bird, so it's fairly normal.
:I work best first thing in the morning, so actually to do this right now is perfect.
:You know, I find there's a bit of a trend for people who run their own businesses or start their own businesses or who are heavily involved in a small business where they tend to be more so morning people instead of evening people.
:I've done no scientific research into this at all, but that is generally what I find.
:Tell me why you enjoy being up early in the mornings.
:From a personal perspective, most of my activities are actually in the evening, so we'll go into that probably a bit later, but I play a lot of netball, general activities, so I get up, I do what I need to do work-wise, and then it leaves the evenings free.
:It's interesting.
:I've actually done a 360 U-turn when I was in my 20s and 30s.
:It was the other way around, but I'm far more productive first thing in the morning when nobody is interrupting and wanting a bit of your attention.
:Now, you're here on this podcast actually through recommendation, because Kirsty Hassan, who we both know, said to me that you'd be a great person to have on I'd Rather Be at the Beach.
:How do you know Kirsty?
:So I virtually met Kirsty in 2022.
:I had to think about that.
:The years are going far too quickly.
:I was retained by Forfar Education to source a regional marketing manager within the north of England.
:And as part of my role, we go out, we approach individuals and talk to them and just get to know them generally.
:She was successfully appointed and unfortunately due to family commitments and the travel, it sort of made the role sort of a bit untenable for her and she decided to return to consultancy.
:However, when talking to the HRD, Kate, or the Human Resources Director, Kate, who I've worked with on a number of other roles within Forfar, she suggested that Kirsty had a conversation with me with regards to recruitment.
:And literally the rest is history.
:Very strong market knowledge, sector knowledge, and obviously complements very much how we work.
:So yeah, it was a very good match.
:Yeah, Kirsty's a great girl.
:She really is.
:She's probably listening to this recording right now.
:So if she is, then hi, Kirsty.
:I hope you're having a good day.
:So tell us more about your business, Mel.
:And because this is the podcast where we don't talk about work, tell me about your business without selling your business.
:Right, okay.
:So we help schools find their unsung heroes and unsung heroes, their work homes, effectively.
:It's as simple as that.
:Okay.
:You can't fluff it up.
:All right, tell me more about that, then.
:So we support schools on their non-academic recruitment, which specifically is operational.
:So they keep the schools running and there's such an integral role within a school, supporting the academics, ensuring that they can do what they do best, which is the teaching side of things and looking after children.
:But effectively, a school still needs to run behind the scenes, and we very much support that side of things.
:Everything from marketing and admissions, to estates, to senior leadership, et cetera.
:So, yeah, so we like to call them, or I like to call them the unsung heroes in the operation side.
:I think that's a good way of putting it, I really do.
:So essentially, it's recruitment, then.
:Is this a headhunting company, then?
:Is that right?
:Yes, so we have a bit of a hybrid model, actually.
:So I don't know how much you know, but there are sort of three types of recruitment.
:Oh, okay, I don't know much about recruitment, so tell me everything.
:Okay, so there are three types, which is contingency recruitment, which is very much reactive in terms of, say for instance, I don't know, a finance manager and accounts managers didn't turn up or were sick.
:You needed somebody immediately.
:So we, that's the reactive side of it.
:We don't focus on that from a school's perspective.
:And actually from an organization perspective, we don't, we have sort of a hybrid search retained offer.
:So we work in partnership with organizations.
:So whether it's schools, higher education, property, and so we support them through the process.
:We manage the process for them, work in partnership, talk to various stakeholders involved in the role as well.
:So whether it's, if it's a senior leadership role, we work with the whole of the senior leadership team across the school.
:And that can include heads versus chair of governors all the way through to the team members.
:So it's quite exciting because it gives you a really good understanding of the organization or the schools rather.
:Yeah, okay, interesting, interesting.
:So I've been to a lot of schools, as I'm sure you have as well, and one of the things I often find is that when I'm working with a marketing manager, it's not unusual for them to be a mum who's returning to work having taken a couple of years out to have children or a couple of years, maybe five years, maybe 10 years.
:And often if they had a job working in London, something like that, quite successful, an exciting kind of role often in events or PR or something like that, and they always loved their careers, then when they come back to work, they feel like they, well, they often say to me that they feel like they've lost a bit of their confidence in the workplace.
:Tell me something about your experience of that.
:Yeah, so I wouldn't disagree with that.
:I have a 14 year old now, so I can completely understand where people come from.
:I think there's a, the interesting thing about marketing and admissions is it's very much a sales role, a people role.
:Ultimately, it's a different type of sales role in the sense that you have to attract the pupils.
:So you have to have a certain kind of metal, I guess, is the expression.
:But it's very much that if you're a mum going into the sector or a parent going into the sector, so not just a mum, actually, it's, you have that personal experience, and that was what made me naturally draw to the marketing and admissions environment when I recruit, because I understand that that sales cycle and having that personal experience.
:It can be a really good experience, and equally, it can be a not so good experience.
:So it's that empathy and understanding that as a parent, you're all going on a journey.
:And I find that the better, just from experience, having been on the other side, those that have been on that experience, i.e.
:their children have been through the entrance process, it's very, they can empathise with the parents and their experience.
:So let's say someone's listening to this right now, maybe they're doing marketing and admissions in the school that they're at right now, but maybe they're looking for a new challenge, or they're not very happy there, or maybe they've got a child at the school who's about to leave, therefore now they're thinking now it could be a good trigger point to move on to a different school.
:What encouragement would you give to that person?
:I think you have to do what's right for you as an individual.
:That's the biggest advice I can give anybody when they're looking for a new role, to be honest.
:I think that you have to ensure that it's the right organization, and it's not as simple as, oh, this school is the right school for me because it's got the title.
:Actually, every school, every organization has a different culture and environment, and the biggest thing I could say is that actually it's, in order for you to be in the right role, it has to be the right culture, the right environment.
:Effectively, as I made reference earlier, it's your work home.
:You spend just as much time in the work environment as you do at home, so actually you need to make sure it's right.
:And I think that's something that, you know, I found from a personal experience with the management recruitment group slash schools leadership, I've been there for 12 years.
:It's my work home.
:And that's so key.
:You tend to stay in your work home.
:What is it about the independent school sector that you enjoy?
:Why is it you're working in this sector?
:I think everything in my career, I've always worked towards in my recruitment career.
:I've always worked towards heading into schools eventually.
:Obviously took a little bit longer to find my niche.
:I am actually a former student from an independent school.
:My daughter goes to an independent school.
:And so it kind of seemed a bit natural.
:How I came into schools though within or schools leadership as it is now.
:Previously, I was focused on project management, built environment consultancy.
:So naturally I gravitated towards the public sector, but more specifically the schools teams.
:So consultancies that were building new schools or doing refurbishments.
:But really, really interesting.
:And this role actually came up, and I sort of undernard and went, actually, do you know what?
:It's really exciting.
:It's the opportunity to use everything I have covered in my career.
:So I have worked in various sectors, but actually the roles are the important things.
:So I've covered HR, I've covered marketing.
:Whilst I haven't done admissions previously, it's all fairly sort of, there's a lot of transferable schools.
:But in terms of the sector, it's just so diverse.
:It's the expression, every day's a school day.
:But it's the individuals in the sector are just so different, but it's very engaging.
:People want to talk to you.
:I think that's the biggest thing.
:People actually want to talk to you.
:And I miss that.
:As soon as you mentioned that you went to an independent school and that your daughter goes to one, I think most people are now thinking, which schools were they?
:Which school did you go to?
:I went to St Mary's Hall, which was in Brighton.
:St Mary's Hall was actually taken over by Roading.
:And now actually, the old school is, the prep school for Brighton College, is actually St Mary's Hall.
:So I worked recently with Brighton College, or a couple of years ago with Brighton College, and actually got to see my old school.
:So it's quite sort of reminiscent, some 30 plus years ago.
:And obviously Brighton has changed quite significantly.
:But yeah, it was just really nice to be able to go and see the college and then say, oh, I went to the prep school.
:And then my daughter goes to St Joe's in Suffolk, in Ipswich, which is renowned for its rugby festival.
:But it's, we knew that we didn't want to stay in London, and we were fortunate enough, my daughter was offered a scholarship, so it was sort of a bit of a no brainer, so to speak.
:Very good.
:Okay, so it sounds to me like then you grew up in the Brighton area, then you kind of moved to the London area on your career, on your travels, and now you're living in the Ipswich kind of area.
:Is that right?
:Yes, it is.
:Yeah, very different.
:And have you lived anywhere else in the UK or outside the UK for that matter?
:Yes, absolutely.
:Not outside of the, oh, actually, I'm not sure if a stint in the US is a nanny when you're 19 really counts, but is living out there.
:Oh, I think we can put it in there.
:Yeah, that's okay.
:Um, significantly younger, though.
:In terms of, yes, other places, I was at Sheffield for a year.
:I moved back down to London to get on to the university.
:Actually, I transferred on work placement and then moved on to the course that I actually wanted to do and ended up in London for the best part of 30 years.
:So moving out of London, actually it was in COVID times, it was quite a good, yeah, it was a perfect opportunity.
:My daughter was starting in year seven.
:She'd been at a prep school in East London.
:So it was, you know, it was a natural, it's very different, but actually it suits all, the whole family really well.
:Okay, tell me something about when you're not at work, Mel.
:I'd love to know what you get up to during the weekends, during the evenings, during maybe summertime when things might be a little bit quieter.
:Yeah, so I'm quite busy.
:So I play a lot of netball.
:I'm actually the safeguarding and welfare officer for my local netball club.
:Prior to moving out to Ipswich, I also actually was the club secretary and one of the founding players in one of the clubs in London.
:So netball plays quite a high part in my life.
:I also box and the boring stuff like go to the gym.
:Did you say you box?
:Yes.
:Tell me about that.
:Well, it's not as active.
:I'm not as active as I used to be when we were in London.
:It's more a bit of fun in fairness.
:So there's a boxing class, which is just really fun to drum and bass.
:So it's quite hectic, but just quite good fun.
:And it's a good way to burn some calories.
:And if you're feeling a bit frustrated at the end of the day, just to get rid of that energy, that negative energy.
:Brilliant.
:I love it.
:I might try it.
:I think some of the people listening to this right now are thinking, oh, I could do with some kind of a release like that.
:Yeah, it's very cathartic.
:If you've had a hard day, I always come away refreshed.
:Okay, and outside of keeping fit, what else do you do?
:So I am studying an ILM level seven executive coaching and mentoring course.
:ILM, what's that then?
:It's Institute of Leadership and Management.
:It's a very well known course.
:So a lot of the leadership and management courses go through ILM.
:So I have always wanted to do something in addition to recruitment.
:And I think that's the thing that sets me apart is that I'm not just a recruiter.
:I actually work in partnership with both candidates and clients.
:And I want to make sure they have the best opportunity to progress, to do well and enjoy where they are.
:And it was actually a candidate about five or six years ago when I was securing her a new role.
:She said to me, oh, you were coach because of the way that we went through the process.
:And I said, no.
:She said, really?
:And so she said, well, I think you should be.
:And actually I have her to thank for it, because that made me sort of a bit more interested in that.
:How do people work?
:How what motivates them?
:A lot of the time from a coaching perspective, they actually know the solutions, but it's just not immediately there.
:So it's really fun working with senior leaders, directors.
:I've got some guinea pigs who are director level senior leadership.
:I'm just about to take on a newly appointed head, just to work through those challenges for newly appointed leaders effectively.
:Now, Mel, you're here on a podcast.
:I'm dying to know what podcasts you listen to yourself.
:So at the moment, I'm actually more focused on anything that is executive coaching and mentoring.
:So it's all a bit boring at the moment because it's webinars, it's podcasts.
:There's nobody specific because there's a lot of, I'm collating a lot of data and listening to a lot of information.
:So I'm sort of slightly boring at the moment with that.
:Oh, I don't think that's boring at all.
:I don't think it's boring.
:Just on that subject of coaching, sometimes I find that people, if they are maybe in between jobs, maybe they've been unexpectedly made redundant.
:Sometimes they step into this newly created role for themselves of being a life coach and then do that for three or four months and then decide that actually that's not for them at all.
:And they go back to having what they might call a proper job.
:What is this trend with everybody declaring themselves as being a coach without really understanding truly what they're doing?
:I'm not talking about you, by the way, but other people.
:Yes, no, no, no, that's a good point.
:I think a lot of people think it's an easy option.
:And actually it's not.
:It can be perhaps unintentionally quite a motive as well.
:But actually it's about making them the best person they can be and working through solutions.
:And I think there's a lot of confusion about mentoring and coaching.
:So they're two very different types of offers.
:And unless you've been through that process and the training process, actually there's that sort of fluffy gray line between the two.
:Coaching, you don't have to be an expert in that specific area.
:You can, you know, it's just about asking the questions and listening and sort of probing and getting the individual to understand.
:I think with coaching though, there are different strains.
:There are life coaches who specifically look at key areas, whether it's personal, whether it's financial.
:From my perspective, I want to use this obviously for senior leadership within schools.
:I think a lot of individuals get promoted because they're good at what they do.
:But actually they don't necessarily have that skill set to progress because they don't get that.
:Schools are very good at developing children, exceptionally good at developing children.
:But when it comes to their professional development, I think there's always scope.
:But yeah, so it really, there are so many different types of coaches.
:I think if you're going to do it properly, you do an ILM course or a coaching academy course, whichever is right.
:Okay, all right.
:So that's podcast coaching and mentorship.
:What's the last good movie that you saw?
:So there are two thoughts.
:So we went to see Wonka, my daughter and I.
:Okay, very good.
:Which was quite good fun.
:I think that my daughter and I, she's 14.
:So I felt it was very important that she was, she had exposure to the films that we saw when we were growing up.
:So we have a list of the various brat club films.
:So The Breakfast Club, very iconic film.
:So we go through that.
:And then equally, fun things like Pitch Perfect.
:Awesome, okay, and just to throw back then to 80s, what's one of your favorite movies from back then?
:Well, do you know what?
:Pretty in Pink or The Breakfast Club?
:St.
:Elmo's Fire, literally all of those.
:We have a list of, I think about 30.
:Okay, that's the last good movie then and last good book that you read.
:Right now, I mean, it's a bit boring because they're all about coaching and mentoring.
:But in terms of sort of last fiction book, it would have been the Discovery of Witches, actually, the All Souls trilogy.
:Oh, okay, I don't know that one at all.
:No, well, I like it.
:It's a story about vampires and witches, but it's actually the journey and a journey across the years and centuries.
:So it's really good because you've got the combination of the modern and the old.
:Okay, and Mel, last question then, if anyone's listened to this and they wanted to get in touch with you, maybe they need a bit of coaching advice or maybe they're looking to change their role and they'd just like to connect with you.
:What's the best way they should do that?
:So the normal sort of media, so LinkedIn, but equally they can just email me, call me, I'm very open to all of that.
:But happy to connect with anybody on LinkedIn, obviously, we have a school's leadership page so they can follow what we're doing.
:Kirsty and I are quite busy on daily postings, but equally we're quite active and we do a mix of everything that could impact a school, whether it's thought leadership pieces through to meet the teams, through to what's going on with vacancies, et cetera.
:Okay, and the website address, just so that people can understand that?
:Yeah, it's www.schoolsleadership.com.
:Okay, all right, does what it says on the tin.
:That's perfect.
:Mel, keeping an eye on time, we're gonna need to bring this to a close now, but thank you so much for being here, especially early on a Thursday morning on a, I'm looking outside now, on a cold Thursday morning as well, but I really appreciate you being here.
:It's been great talking to you.
:Thank you.
:Thank you very much, it's been really enjoyable.
:So you've just reached the end of this episode.
:If you would like to have a podcast in your school for your own school marketing, then zip on over to www.thebonjouragency.com.
:We get your school podcast up and running, and we keep it going for consistent episodes coming out regularly.
:But if you don't want a podcast, then you're still welcome here at I'd Rather Be at the Beach, because we're just like a big family here.
:Anyway, the next episode's coming out soon, so click that option to follow or subscribe.
:It just means that you won't miss it.
:We'll see you next time.
:Bye for now.
